Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to the EU Energy Projects Podcast, a podcast series from Enlida and France focusing on the clean energy transition for the European Union and the EU Commission funded energy projects that will help us achieve it. My name is Aretida Radimu. I. I am the editor of the EU Energy Projects podcast and your host. The energy sector has been a predominantly male one since its very beginning. During the last decade, however, we tend to see a change with more young women taking an interest in energy and climate issues and jobs. Great examples of this change. The two ladies in this episode. Julia Conforto is a senior researcher at ETHINK Energy Research. Lorena Schillen is partner and CEO of Noval Group. Together we are going to discuss their career journey in the sector, but also their views on topics such as EU Commission's new compass to regain competitiveness. So, Lorena, Giulia, welcome and thank you for being part of this episode.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Julia, would you like to tell us a few things about yourself and what your current work role is?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Yes, of course. Good morning everyone. My name is Giulia Conforto. I'm a senior researcher at ethink, which is a small research center based in Vienna. It's a spin off of the technical university and now it's a non profit association. My background is in international relations and diplomacy and in energy economics. I certified as project manager, energy manager and I started working in utilities and consulting companies in Italy, moved to Austria because of sustainable Bioenergy for all. It's an initiative of the Secretary General of the United nations and now anything. I've been here for about five years. I'm developing European projects, acquiring and drafting new projects, mostly on the decarbonization of the heating and cooling sector. And the focus of my research is how to finance the decarbonization measures. So, upgrade of heating and cooling systems, development of new district heating and cooling networks, local heating and cooling planning, retrofitting of buildings and so on.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Exciting stuff. Lorena.
[00:02:25] Speaker C: Hello everyone. Hi Areti. Hi Julia. Happy to be here. So my name is Lorena. I'm a founder and CEO of Nobile. Nobile is a company concentrated on energy communities, energy hub and energy sharing models. So together with my team and with my co founder, we are developing a bottom up electricity market. So the idea of an energy community, energy hub, whatever you name it, is that the direct exchange of the kilowatt hour of electricity from the producing power plant to the end consumer and for that purposes we provide a platform. We already have over 150 energy communities or energy Hubs under management. So we can really see this model is not only very well adopted, but by different target groups. So not only citizens, but also SMEs, but also larger companies and of course producers of the renewable energies.
In a time where we all suffer a little bit under the development of the electricity market. In terms of price, I think it's not that much to high price. This is something you just accept at some point. More, it's the volatility of the market. It's just you don't have a possibility to plan your budgets. And this is where the model of direct exchange of the electricity, where the pricing is just differently based on the production cost and not on the wholesale market. And merit order our customers can have a price stability. Nevertheless, this is a nutshell how the model works and why it's very successful. But we are of course also going further with the model by also taking part into the project, like a large project of the real labor in Austria in a very certain region, where we at the moment try to identify how we can put a storage capacity capacity between the DSO grid and the energy community. And just to see how can an energy community support the local grid to have enough capacity so that the further investments are not necessary in a very large extent. And this project also show how the way can go further with the bottom up energy system. Yes.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: Sorry, Lorena, do you also get funding from the eu or is it from the Austrian government for this project?
[00:04:49] Speaker C: Oh, for this project.
For this very specific project that we do. We are just a part of the project together with the large DSOs and the utilities and of course the region themselves. That's an Austrian funded project, FFG funded project. But this is the only project that we fund. Everything else, it's our commercial models that we do at Nobile. So the models are very well calculated and they work for the producer, for the consumer, but also for Nobile, of course. So it's no need for any type of funding in a regular energy community energy hub model.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: You're the dream then.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: Very nice, Julia.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: Any project that you would like to.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Mention, one that I'm very fond of, that is very dear to me, is called Escalate. It started in September. It's a project that stems from the fact that the Energy Efficiency Directive recast in article 25 imposed a new obligation on the member states, that is to ensure that every municipality above 45,000 inhabitants, it keeps itself of a heating and cooling transition plan. And what we see, because we develop heating and cooling plans for local Administrations is that larger cities have their own energy office or sustainability office. They have the human resources, technical and financial resources in general to develop a plan or to outsource that. And smaller municipalities don't have any of that. And outsourcing that to a private consulting organization or company is usually costly. And they are, most of the time they don't know how to approach the sector because it's very technical. It's a complicated process. It requires engaging the right stakeholders. So what we have set up is a group of scientists and research organizations and private companies that are very experienced in this sector to streamline best practice across Europe. We set up an open access training platform, a template and a guideline. Because so far you have a few guidelines only in Germany. Germany and Austria are the most advanced countries from this point of view of heating and cooling planning, because it's already compulsory in regions, for instance Baden Wurttemberg. So we take the best practice, we create a template, a guideline, a free course not only directed to the municipalities, so at a, let's say basic level, but also directed to the regional energy agencies so that they can be trained to become the consultants of the municipalities in their own regions. And we use the multiple. This multiplier effect. That's a project that I'm very fond of, but we have many. On heating and cooling Cool life Meeting the growing space Cooling demand in sustainable ways act on Heat Assisting local administrations in advancing their heating cooling planning support DHC also on district heating and cooling hotmaps created the first UI data set and mapping tool for for the heat demand density map to calculate potentials to meet this demand in sustainable ways. How to reduce the demand what are the areas with the greatest potential for district heating? Renewable potentials in this area we have really a lot. Flexgeo is developing a prototype of a reversible ground source heat pump that can provide electricity or heating or cooling with 15 minutes of transition between one and the other modality. So it greatly supports the flexibility of the grid. We have had many moderate opengs for it. I could tell you a lot, but it risks to be confusing because to me they are my babies.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: I completely understand.
Did you know that Enlit has another podcast? The Energy Transitions Podcast is a broad ranging bi weekly podcast about the people accelerating the energy transition in Europe and beyond. You can find it on Spotify, Apple or wherever you enjoy your podcasts. You're both tasking. Let me put it this way, but I want to ask you hand to heart, what's the representation of women in projects and everything you're working currently for Julia. Would you like to start?
[00:09:30] Speaker B: I'd say it's changing over time. So let me think. When I joined, for instance, SE4All was not a research organization. It was an intergovernmental organization. Then it transitioned outside of the UN into an international ngo. When I arrived, most of the team was made of men. But with the CEO that we had at the time, Rachel Kite, the gender balance within the organization changed. So there was a greater attention to this point. And that was 2016. When I joined Ethync, I was the only woman.
And now we have.
Let me think. We have three researcher and one junior administration profile out of a team of nine people. So we. We're heading towards a 50 50. And I can see these changes in the projects where I work. It's changing quickly. Lorena, I don't know what is your experience, for instance?
[00:10:30] Speaker C: My experience is more or less the same as yours is. As I started with the energy industry, I was mostly the only woman on the table. So this was like a normal situation. I think things happened because of course women are interested in an energy business. But maybe I'll start shortly somewhere else. I think the energy business was in the past a very tight, very monopol holistic, very vertical integrated. So it was not an open branch, an open industry where everybody could walk in and walk out as it wish. It was a very tight. This was not only for women, but also for male. You really needed to have a very straightforward way to engage with the industry on a very early stage and then go the whole way through the, I don't know, vertical integrated utility from, I don't know, production or the grid to then customer sides of the utility. And this is how the career path was going at that time. And then something happens, of course, triggered by unbundling. And all this was like a first step in doing this a little bit not that tight to the industry because the vertical integration fall down of the utilities. The second was more and more of the renewables. So this tightness, this. I say it like a big dark tower where you cannot look into it was a little bit more become more transparent, but not because somebody in the big black tower says we want to be diverse or we want to have more women or more people from other industries or from other countries. But it was more that through the regulation, the whole industry become more transparent. And this is really due to the unbundling on the one hand and due to the really coming renewables entering the market. And I think this is also what I can observe Today when you maybe look into the utilities, I think they still struggle because they just have the structures which are. And now we are really on the topic of the women which are not 200% suitable for women. On the other hand, when I see companies like my then we have a really high grade of diversity because first of all women want to engage with positive things. So you see that also women want to have a green energy. They are more empathic, they want more democratization.
They don't only also but not only tackle the power of a top down hierarchy. So they feel more comfortable in companies which are not maybe this old structured utilities but do more in direction renewables or maybe energy communities, energy sharing. This is where they feel more comfortable. Nevertheless, I saw in a Nobel funding proceeding and I'm very happy about that. There are also some still geographical differences within Europe and European Union. So Austria or let's say German speaking market is relatively conservative but Nobel and I'm very happy about that. Beyond other VC investors, we also have a Finnish one which asked us if we want to, if we would love to have a diversity clause within the contracts. And I said yes, thank you for bringing more diversity from Austria to Finland. So yes, you can. Exactly. So this topic comes from different angles. I would say let's say the Nordics are pushed like my investor Helen Ventures which I'm very proud of. From the other side, the renewables are where the women feel more comfortable than in an old. It could be even worse oil industry, natural gas industry, electricity. Yeah, so it's hardcore. So they feel more comfortable in these new models that have opened through the European green deal unbundling. And of course renewables entering at Nobile we are at 40%, we will reach 50% because we want to.
But we are also diverse on other levels. So we also have really people from other countries also and from other continents because we see it's very positive for our businesses.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's about time we solve the women equality, women men equality issue so then we can start tackling non binary migration etc. Then it would be if we truly want to be, let's say good to know that we have such nice, let's say suggestions from Europe especially seeing that on the other side of the Atlantic things are getting a little bit weird on that on that topic. But I wanted to ask you also if you can be a little bit more specific, what are some key industry changes for example that have positively impacted working in this field not only as a woman in general, we don't have to see it unilaterally. Julia, would you like to start?
[00:15:20] Speaker B: How could I put it? At European level, putting binding targets for the energy transition, imposing the unbundling of the sector of both gas and electricity has worked as a catalyst of these changes. So you know, for many decades as a society, we believed that the invisible hand of economy would fix everything. Yes, it does fix everything in a non sustainable model. So this is the issue and to be sustainable, we need to start a process that brings us towards a sustainable society and energy system. And this is where the European regulation has played a role. So the targets in terms of reduction of emissions, increase of energy efficiency and increase of renewables that we set first for 2020, then for 2030, then for 2050.
The importance that at European level we have put progressively into the decarbonization of various sectors, the digitization of sectors, that means a greater competitiveness, but also sustainability. Considering all these elements together, the fact that the transition can happen at different speeds in different regions of the European Union, therefore we need to support further those most vulnerable countries. So the 10 countries that have the lowest income, all these policy provisions, they seem so broad and high level, but they do reflect in changes at the very bottom level. You do see the grassroots changes that meet this top down in the middle. I don't know if you have seen the same.
[00:17:11] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Julia. And are Julia already tackled a lot of that are pushing the diversity, but I think I'm still back on that. The industry needs more different type of professionals. Because when you look at the industry like 20 years ago, there was no energy efficiency, no ESG, no E mobility, no this type of topic. So what did you need? You needed a trader, you needed a salesperson, you needed a financial guy and you need something who does a customer care. And now you need it people who understand energy business just to know, okay, how does the flexibility works? How do I do all these things, how do I do the dynamic tariffing or whatsoever, how do I do building of energy communities, for example? Then when you see the electromobility, there is automotive industry experts coming. You also need digitalization of all of that because electromobility just works differently. So it's a lot of digital stuff also in there. When you look at the ESG package and EU taxonomy, you need guys who are coming from, who are lawyers, who are coming from different educational backgrounds. And of course, when you go to the energy efficiency, you need all of them more or less. And so this is also how the industry itself, without thinking about opening Itself, it just happened because you cannot have five profiles within the industry, which has become so wide. And so I think this is also the reason why different type of. Because why people with different types of backgrounds are now just normal in the energy industry, which was not like that as I was started with in the utility world. So these are all reasons that push for diversity, but also a push for the customers. Because through the competition on the electricity market, and not now the competition by new business models like energy communities or energy sharing coming into the market, but also the competition at that time with bundling and everything, where the utilities start to competing with each other. You need marketing, you need communication. Because when you are monopolist, you don't need that. You are the only one. So why to market the product when there is no second product and no competition. And this is how everything started, very slowly, of course, but this is already where it started. You need different people, utilities. Understood. I don't have a metering point. I really have a customer. And it could be a woman, maybe.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: And so they need us to think about, okay, how do I set up a new communication? Is it a young person, is it an old person? How do I communicate? How do I send the bill? How do I do the marketing? Who is my target group? Actually, it's not a metering point anymore and that's a monopolistic market. And this is where everything started. And now we are going to be even more diverse because we need all the techies and we need all the people who are just not straightforward. I don't know a lawyer is or somebody like that. It's very good. Yeah, it's good.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: I wanted to go to another Greek topic, which is ethics and why I say it's Greek because it started in ancient Greek. It's a fun fact. Do you have the feeling sometimes that in order to be competitive, we have as Europeans to take a step back from our history, our ethics, our philosophy? Because reading this new compass for competitiveness, even though I agree and I wrote about it, a short article saying that I think that this is the right step forward, I also deep down inside feel like we're taking a step back when it comes to our ethics and I don't know, our democratic ideals in order to be more competitive, I don't know. Julia, what do you think?
[00:21:04] Speaker B: It's a difficult question. The fact is that Europe is currently not a military force. It's not the state, it's not a demographic force, because it's not Africa, India or China growing to the sky. What Europe has is fairness, is a social state, is the fact that here the middle class is still the majority of the population. And it's hard to defend that in times where populism is taking over. And we see it all over Europe, we see it in the States, it's happening because we just. I think that's my personal opinion, because we lower our guard because we thought, okay, democracy isn't a key, we don't need to defend it further. We got distracted and now we realize, oh, wait a second, we need to do something. The fact is this, as scientists, we know something that usually goes unnoticed. The planet is going to survive with or without human species. We have to decide if we want to be on the planet or not. I'd like to be on the planet and to see our species grow prosperously in a sustainable way. Because if we're not sustainable, it's just that it's a matter of perspective. Humans, we tend to only worry about the threats that we consider urgent, imminent and catastrophic. And we don't see the consequences of climate change and of an unequal economic system as catastrophic and urgent. But it's likely to come.
Becoming more competitive is fundamental to stay afloat. I don't think we should take a step back towards our ethics. And the fact that the European Union promotes this competitive compass doesn't mean that it's going to be accepted. Europe is made of a lot of Europeans that are very fond of all the democratic.
We have also the way of life that we have.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Lorena. Agree? Disagree. Thoughts?
Corrections? Maybe we said something.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: Yes, already.
[00:23:25] Speaker C: Thank you. I think there is nothing wrong with being competitive or there is nothing wrong in pushing the competitiveness, because if we are not competitive, we will lose on, on, on our wealth. And because we are in the system that we are, we need technology development to have growth cycles. We have the GDP theory already, no matter who we are on or not on that.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: Sorry for interrupting you. Let me say just this to see how much I agree with you. Yes. If we lose our wealth, we will lose our privilege and the opportunity to philosophize about our ethics.
[00:24:03] Speaker C: I agree.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:24:04] Speaker C: That is, and this is why I think that this is the ground floor, that we have a very developed society and so that we can also develop our technologies even further. Because a poor society without having money can also not develop new technologies for putting everything further, no matter in what direction we go. Is it the social system, the diversity, or is it just pushing the gdp, breaking all, everything? I think this is the ground floor. So I Think it's very important also from the different from a second type of perspective. And it's also we need to have in our side that the European Commission at the moment is under the political pressure and everything. What is going to be pushed towards towards European Commission in a negative way. It's the bureaucracy and Europe is slowing down and is drawing in a bureaucracy. And of course to get that a little bit away and to say no guys, we are relevant, we will be relevant, but only as a strong European Union and not as 27 countries. That doesn't make sense. They need to go for pushing for the competitiveness in certain areas. And also of course the pushing of our economy, which is of course when you learn the economy and economic theories, you need to have the next technology and technology, otherwise you cannot go for the growth. And so I wouldn't take it for granted. Competitiveness under every measure. This is not what European Commission thoughts are. I think they just also need to push back all these a little bit negative wordings coming direction because at the moment, as you said directly you see the US then you see also certain state within the European Union. So of course the Ursula von der Leyen and her team, they also need to put some statements in direction. Hey guys, we are relevant and we also will be relevant. I also truly believe in that. I won't go now over the AI, it's just not my topic. But when I look at the renewable, for example, yes, of course we lost it to China. I know, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago I was looking at the companies like Solar World, they were number one on the market of producing PV panels, for example. And now we lost that completely. But nevertheless, in my opinion, we are not the mass producer. We are the sophisticated intelligent technology market. So what we will provide and there is where we wanted to gain competitiveness in these markets again and keep it is how to do a good PV panels which can be recyclable. And this is what the market will need in the future. And not the PV panels, the cheap one for China which you just throw away. So again we will be the ones who will provide the next technology step. Step. Also in the businesses which are already like let's say lost to China, like a PV production. This is just one exception. Or for example batteries. I'm very convinced that Europe will come up with the next battery technology which will be 100% recyclable. Not 100%, but okay, recyclable. And that all automotive with at some point say hey, we cannot take the Dirty one from the China. We need that technology. And then again we will export our technology. And this is how we're going to gain the technology cycles again for us. And the same in the automotive, the German automotive just need to shake a little bit up and go straightforward. And this is of course why we need to give these people, also from the automotive industry or renewable industry, a delight. The commission needs to come also with some competitiveness measurements and everything. So I'm full on it. I've. I truly believe in strong Europe on the technology level, but also on the social and the political level. We are very strong, civil, organized. And just because somebody is just a little bit doing like this from, I don't know, Meda, Hungary, Slovakia, now also in Austria, we have some issues. This could never shake Europe in a way that we forget about our social system or forget about our words that we have and that we grow up. And this is what I truly believe, I'm convinced of that.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: I love your optimism. Julia, you want to add something?
[00:28:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I like very much what you just said, Lorena. I completely agree. But there's one point that I would like to build on and maybe we can discuss it. You mentioned that we need to grow further. We need to constantly grow. And this is exactly where I disagree. We need to grow because if we want to stay afloat in this economic system, then we have to. But if we look at nature, there is no system, no community of any living beings, plants, animals, bacteria, whatever you can think of that grows constantly because at some point they suffocate, either they run out of food or air and then there is a degrowth. So what I think is important, and this is one of the keys that could foster our competitiveness is exactly the concept of circular economy, of sustainability. Growth in the terms of progress, not in the terms of economic growth, wealth, not in the terms of only counting on gdp, but in terms of well being. And these are elements that are very hard to introduce into the economy. And Europe is trying to do a lot with that, with the forward looking policies, but it's still a long way. I don't know what you already think about it, Julia.
[00:29:40] Speaker C: Lorena, I'm completely with you. I'm just trying to pick up the topic and the system that we are. And we cannot change the system of needing the growth and the GDP if everybody around you where you are exporting and Europe is exporting more than importing. So you cannot change the system, otherwise you will crash our economy.
For everything else, I'm completely with you and I want to also to say that if somebody makes a circular economy to work in a way that supports the wealth. And I'm not from constant grow. I know that's fake. You can name it like that.
No, it's fake. It's fake. You are completely right, it's fake. But nevertheless, our economy grounds on certain economical theories. And if you go out of it, you will crash the whole system. So we need to change system slowly, otherwise. And Areti knows me very well, I'm the first one who wants to cut it immediately.
But I learned also a lot in the past 10 years. Becoming older. If you take a wheel from the car will stop. We are in a driving car. The car is driving very fast and you cannot do things like that. So we need to find a way how to go into the circle economy. How to go in a type of economy which is grounded on. Absolutely right. Not only on the growth, but also on the wealth of the planet, social system and growth. But this is something we need to change slowly in the run. And I think the only part of the world that sees that this is necessary for our society and for East Europe. But. But to cut it. It won't work because then we will suffer. And everybody else, especially us, under the new president and China with this axe of the BRICS states. That's great for them because then they will take over and we will crash because we just took the wrong decision. But this needs to be in our eyesight and we need to go towards there. But I truly believe that European Commission is exactly doing that. Otherwise we wouldn't have European green deal. Because European Green Deal and Fit55. It's much much than only the green energy. It's social program, it's environmental program and it's an economic economical program. They just communicated it very bad, to be very honest. And that's the problem of the European Commission. But I think there is no better place to be on the world than.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: Europe at the moment.
[00:32:20] Speaker C: No, in the past, in the moment and in the future. I. I'm completely convinced about that.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: I totally agree with you. But I don't think it's only the commission that is not communicating it well. I think that it's also US and by US media that we are really waiting around the corner to find the smallest of issues. Just bring it in the surface and yeah, I think it brings more clicks. Exactly. That is also an issue. But I also. Julia. Sorry, you want to add.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Sorry, no, I just wanted to. It makes me smile because Lorena is a CEO and she works in the private sector, I'm a researcher, so I have the privilege of dreaming to change the system and striving for that.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: She's a dreamer too.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Oh, I can see that. I can see that.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: But I wanted to add to. First of all, we need to conclude our conversation, unfortunately. But I would like to ask you one final question and I would like to build it on what you said because I agree with both of you, not I do agree with both of you also.
However, I think that there is one more element that is very important if we want to progress and that is that the fact that we need young blood to be infused into everything we do in this sector. So I would like to ask you, from your point of view, from your, let's say, work and specialty, etc, what would you advise? To a young person? I don't want to limit it to only young women. To a young person that wants to enter the energy sector, what would be your advice, Julia?
[00:33:56] Speaker B: I'd say find a mentor. I was young and silly and didn't want to find one. So I fought my own way and it took me a long time before job after job I could lend what I really wanted. And if I could go back, I would find someone to help me understand how the sector works. What kind of jobs are the most fitted for me, for my profile, for what moves me, if I'm moved by making money or being recognized and valued. So in an international organization, in a prestigious role, or doing something that gives me quick results, like in a laboratory, or doing something that changed people's lives. So my ethics and the well being that I return to the society, that's very fundamental because it's the first element that one needs to consider when he or she is evaluating a job position, a company.
But I do see it in the new generation. When I was applying for jobs, I always thought I'm young, so I don't have much to offer, so they will do me a favor if they take me for this position instead. The right approach, it's a fair negotiation. I'm bringing new competencies, new enthusiasm, I'm bringing all of my skills all together in my personality. And they are offering a certain environment, a job and a certain career and growth path and the offer and the demand meet somewhere.
[00:35:30] Speaker A: Wise words. Lorena. Your advice to she, he or they.
[00:35:34] Speaker C: I think young people are in, in the meantime become very interested in the energy sector because they realize that it's very one of the most relevant sectors for climate changes issues, for issues of having a clean industry but also for growth, wealth and everything else. We see that opposite to the past because in the past you only had the electrical engineering studies and physics. Now there are very different types of education which young persons can go to to be educated in energy sector, in energy industry. So this is also how you can see we have a lot of different young talents coming from these studies. So this opened a lot, to be very honest, also to the education that is at the moment present on the market, on the universities, but also at the higher studies for examp. I see that very well in German speaking countries. Again, I think they feel very comfortable with companies nobile with companies also doing renewable, doing the models that the young people can say, hey, I want to go with this model. This makes sense for the future. This makes sense also for me as a young professional. I can tell you Nobel Hut at the moment 30 employees, except for Peter and myself. The oldest one is 35 and this is our COO and all the all others are younger. So it's really. They like it, they love to come into our company. They love to be also educated on the projects after finishing their specific studies on environmental, on energy, on technical engineering, whatever. So this opens a lot, a lot. And they are very interested because it comes also from that Friday for futures and all of that. And these young people just understood I need to go into the energy industry because there is, well, things need to be changed. And they started and then they come to us and say I want to work with you and not with the utility because I truly believe in this bottom up system in renewables. And they feel very comfortable.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: And on this positive note, ladies, thank you so much for this very, very interesting and fun conversation. I really had fun. I hope you had too. And I think that we discussed some really important topics. Again, thank you both so very much.
[00:37:51] Speaker C: Thank you Areti. Thank you, Julia.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you Areti. Thank you.
[00:37:57] Speaker A: You've been listening to the EU Energy Projects podcast, a podcast brought to you by Enlit and friends. You can find us on Spotify, Apple and the Enlit World website. Just hit subscribe and you can access our other episodes too. I'm Aretita Radimo. Thank you for joining us.
