Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to the EU Energy Projects Podcast, a podcast series from Enlida and France focusing on the clean energy transition for the European Union and the EU Commission funded energy projects that will help us achieve it.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Hello everyone.
In today's episode of the EU Energy Projects podcast, we delve into the decarbonisation of energy intensive process industries.
We focus on the Trineflex project which is developing the digital foundation for this transformation.
My guest is the project coordinator, Asif Pasha Mohammed from Aimin Technology Centre in Spain.
Hello Asif, thank you for being here with us today.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: Jonathan, thank you. Thank you for the introduction and yeah, pleasure to have this broadcast with you.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: I think the best place to start is to introduce the Triumflex project. Just give a brief introduction if you would, please.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Sure. Triniflex is a Horizon Europe project focusing on energy intensive industries across Europe.
At its core, the project is about flexibility, specifically energy flexibility, process flexibility and feedstock flexibility, and also its integration where it's needed. We have a big and strong consortium of 29 partners from Europe and UK.
We have five use cases from different sectors, namely glass, aluminium, copper and we have two use cases from wastewater treatment.
It's a 48 month project. We started in September 2022 and currently we are in the final phase of the project until August 2026. So we still have six months to complete the project.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: Okay, well I'm sure we'll run into talk about some of where you are in that, but what have been the key development milestones during the project?
[00:02:15] Speaker C: Yeah, looking back, the project has really evolved in three main phases, starting with project design and then going into development and integration phase. And now in the final, we are in the validation and the demonstration phase. The design phase was around 18 months. The first 18 months. It's a big milestone.
In these phases.
It was mainly aligning everyone around what flexibility really means in an industrial context. Whether it's energy flexibility, process flexibility or feedstock flexibility, that conceptual framework was critical. And then once we have this design ready, then we moved into the development and integration phase. From like month 14 to 30, there was some overlapping of the duration between the design and the development and integration. In this integration phase, development and integration phase, we were collecting data, integrating systems, building digital twins, developing optimization tools and so on. That was a major step, I would say, because we were moving from theory into something measurable and testable. And now currently we are in one of the most important milestones because whatever we have developed, we need to validate and also demonstrate in real industrial environments. So demonstrating These solutions that we have built during the last two phases of the project in operating plants and under real production pressures is a significant milestone.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: And the various sectors that you've selected are quite different. And how were those selected? And what are the different approaches that you're adopting with these different sectors?
[00:03:59] Speaker C: Yeah, these sectors were chosen, one, because they are energy intensive and two, as you said, they represent different types of industrial challenges because each sector has its own challenge. For example metals, aluminium and copper and all, and then glass, they involve very high temperature processes, processes which are difficult to decarbonize.
Water treatment on the other hand, is more electricity driven and offers different types of flexibility potential. So while the overall framework for all these sectors is the same, that is flexibility and digital optimization. But the implementation looks very different in each sector.
For example, in some cases we focused on process optimization, in some other it's more about smart energy management. So I would say there's definitely no one solution fits all.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: Is there overlap between them or are they completely different?
[00:05:01] Speaker C: We have two use cases, for example wastewater treatment, one in Spain and one in adap. I would say some overlap, but the requirements for these two different use cases has some, some difference.
But when you compare glass, aluminium and copper, they are completely different. The requirements are completely different and their objectives to be part of this project are also different.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: And how does Trine Flex specifically contribute to decarbonization of these sectors?
[00:05:34] Speaker C: Yeah, that's an interesting question because I would say, like, if I have to sum up in three main ways. Thiniflex contributes, first through efficiency, that is optimizing processes. It could be the glass making or recycling aluminium or making copper they consume. The idea was optimizing these processes so they consume less energy and reduce unnecessary peaks. Second, by enabling integration of renewable energy, mainly in the two use cases of wastewater treatment plants. And the third one is to create a structural change. For example, by introducing digital twins, sensors, decision support systems, we are enabling continuous optimization. It's not just like one time improvement. So it's a continuous process of optimization.
So I would say the contribution is not just about cutting emissions, but about changing how these five use cases from this industry interacts with the energy system in the long term.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: And what challenges have emerged in decarbonizing these sectors?
[00:06:50] Speaker C: There were quite many, I would say, but that's a really important question because industrial decarbonization is, I would say, much more complex than it sometimes appears on a paper. So one of the biggest challenges is retrofitting legacy equipment. So when I say retrofitting, it's mainly for the collection of data. It's a digital retrofitting. So a lot of industrial infrastructure was built decades ago.
Depending on the industry, these facilities were designed were not designed with flexibility or digital optimization in mind. As I said, it was built built decades ago. So upgrading them without disrupting the production and without excessive cost is not straightforward. So it requires decisions on the top level to the bottom. Because if I'm expecting an operator to work on a system developed by the project where is completely like comfortable working with Excel files and so on. So this was one of the biggest challenges and another major issue is integrating the renewable energy into continuous industrial processes. As you know, renewable energy however is it's variable so we cannot predict it. So the wind does not always blow and the sun does not always shine. So aligning the variability with continuous production was a technical challenge. We also seen some challenges related to data interoperability.
So when you want to introduce digital tools, sensors and decision support systems, they need to communicate with existing systems. So in many cases data was fragmented or stored in incompatible formats. So integrating everything into one coherent platform takes time and coordination. But I would say we are happy that we were able to solve these challenges. One, through having a common data collection platform where the data was collected from all the five use cases. And we also built a data analytical infrastructure where we run the models, models, agents and so on. So this was a big challenge because we were working with five different use cases and each one has a different infrastructure and the way of storing the data and so on.
And finally there's the operational dimension. So industrial operators, they obviously prioritize stability and reliability.
So introducing flexibility into systems that were designed for steady state operation requires not only the technical judgment, but also we understood that organizational and cultural changes are also needed if we have to implement the developments that were made in the project. So overall I say like the challenges, it's just not about just about technology, but it's about aligning a lot of things. The energy systems, infrastructure, data, economics, operations and people for sure.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: So what are the main findings so far?
[00:10:06] Speaker C: Yeah, we had some findings, some observations. So I would start with one of the key observation is that digitalization maturity varies significantly across sectors. So we had five use cases.
Some of them are really, really advanced. Some of them need to upgrade their overall systems. So some industries are already quite advanced in terms of data collection and digital tools, while others are still more traditional systems. So we need to upgrade them.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: So
[00:10:39] Speaker C: this was one of the observations we had in the project.
One of the key findings is that flexibility does not just deliver environmental benefits, but it can also create real economic value when you use flexibility as a tool. So when industrial plants reduce peak demand, optimize energy use or align operations with market signals, they can lower cost. So this, this is one of the finding we had so far here. So.
The other finding is like, okay, flexibility becomes not only a strategy for decarbonization, but if you really use it, it's also a competitive strategy for the company.
And as I said earlier, said other one was workforce skills. They were really critical. Technology alone is not enough. Operators, engineers and managers, they need to understand how to use these digital tools. So, so we came up with a training program, a training framework which will help these operators or engineers or managers to understand that the digital tools and how flexibility works in practice. So upskilling and training are also essential if you really want these solutions to have long term impact.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: I was going to ask you about the training framework and so that was aimed at. At the pilot, the people working in the pilot, was it?
[00:12:12] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
Not only the partners inside the consortium, but this training framework is also for external partners outside of Triniflex. So yeah, this is one of the pillars of Trinoflex, this training framework. Because the idea was to develop a comprehensive training framework designed to build knowledge and skills across a range of key topics.
So we all already have the module for the background knowledge. So in this background knowledge module, what we did is we recorded in terms of the webinars, videos and so on on the core subjects like the energy flexibility, digitalization technologies and some even focus on the production processes themselves.
This background knowledge module, this gives learners a solid foundation in both the concepts and practical methods.
And then. Okay, and in the background knowledge also I can give you some examples like there are units on, on topics like digital retrofitting, energy management systems. So these give you a good background of what exactly is digital retrofitting, why is it needed, what are the advantages and so on. And then in the second module, which is more advanced level, because we focused these trainings, this, these videos with explaining the results from the project. So this framework we also, that builds directly on the, on our project results so people can learn from what we have actually tested and proven in the pilot sites. These trainings are open, if you go to threeflex EU website, you can register and take the courses. So as I said, the intention is for training to be more widely accessible and not just to the partners inside, not to the operators or engineers from the project.
But it's also meant to Support those that are not directly involved in Triniflex, the industry professionals or stakeholders who are interested in flexibility and digital transformation.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Okay, good. And what then are the final steps to be completed in the project? And for example, are you doing economic analysis to determine sort of ROI on the technologies?
[00:14:36] Speaker C: Yeah, the first two phases, the design and development and integration, we mainly focus on development and so on. So the final steps of this project is to make sure that whatever we develop in the project are validated by the users of the five use cases. So this phase will focus on validation of each tool separately if needed, and also the integration of the tools, because there are some tools that require some integration and so on. So here it's like complete system validation and demonstrating the tools in the real environment. So we already deployed these applications and the operators or engineers, they can already start using it. And we are in this process now, in this phase now where they're testing. And we also have to quantify, so not just developing the tools, but we need to also quantify the energy savings, CO2 reductions, economic impact. So it's about demonstrating measurable results. And in parallel to that, we are also working on replication guidelines. So we have developed these tools and so on, and we wanted to essentially show how these solutions can be applied in other sectors and regions. So we are trying to reach to different stakeholders from the same industry and also the other industry.
So these are some of the final steps. These final steps will make or ensure impact beyond the lifetime of the project.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: And yes, I was going to ask, because that's obviously a very important point is the technology doesn't die when the project ends and what specific steps I do envisage. And for example, you mentioned the problem with the data integrity.
To expand the use of the solutions, what will there need to be? Will the NG data space fill that role as a data platform or will it be the proprietary data platform that's built in the project, for example?
[00:16:51] Speaker C: Yeah, we are building some business models where depending on the. On the sector. So we have four different sectors, as I said, aluminium, glass, copper and wastewater treatment. So for each of the sector, what we're trying to do is we have a set of tools that can work independently because let's say you have to optimize a process in the glass, for example, or we also identified like let's say in an aeration process, how to optimize the aeration process in the wastewater treatment. So we have tools that are completely independent and that needs, that can work independently. And then we also have a complete Package, I would say where if there is an exact replicated company that works like similar to what we have in the project, then we can give it as a package if it's complete, exactly replicated. So we have both options. One is okay, we can customize what we have developed for some use cases or sometimes you can directly use it. As I said, as you also mentioned the data platforms and so on. Yes, we have been discussing one of the project goals is also to exploit these results as a group coming up with some business models so these tools can be easily adapted by the industry.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: And will the technologies you've implemented, will they remain in situ for those companies that have been piloting them?
[00:18:22] Speaker C: Yes, it will be in situ because at least from the industrial partners we have, they prefer in situ because having accessing remotely or so on, they don't prefer it. So they want to have all these deployments of the tools, mainly the digital ones inside the premises. One is the confidentiality issues and so on. And yeah, the project also has this option if a company industry wants to have an insight to deployment. Last phase is also about exploiting the results. So the idea is to how to extend the uptake in the industry. So of course the goal never stop.
The goal has never been to talk by demonstration. So we are engaging with industries technology providers to make sure that these solutions are transferable and scalable. And we were also able to attend the exhibition in Bilbo where we had some discussions presentations about the project and there were some interesting discussions happened during that time. So our idea is to extend, not to be on the project and to exploit the results. So yeah, we are also looking, as I said, we are also looking at different business models because for industry to adapt these solutions they need to make economic sense.
So this is also something we are working in this last phase. So in addition to validation and demonstration, we are also focusing on exploiting the results.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Good. Well thank you Asif and I think it's very timely with the release of the Industrial Accelerator act today.
So your results will be very timely and we look forward to following the project to the end and learning about the final results.
So thank you again.
[00:20:09] Speaker C: Thank you. Jonathan. Yes,
[00:20:12] Speaker A: you've been listening to the EU Energy Projects Podcast, a podcast brought to you by Enlit and France. You can find us on Spotify, Apple and the Enlit World website.
Just hit subscribe and you can access our other episodes too. I'm areditaradimo, thank you for joining us.
