Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to the EU Energy Projects Podcast, a podcast series from Enlida and France focusing on the clean energy transition for the European Union and the EU Commission funded energy projects that will help us achieve it. My name is Aretid Daradimu. I. I am the editor of the EU Energy Projects Podcast and your host.
Hello everyone. I am joined today by Leon Nielsen representing Circe Technology Centre, a leading organization driving digitalisation, sustainability and energy innovation across Europe.
We'll be discussing the EU Commission's evolving energy regulations and take a closer look at several groundbreaking EU funded projects including Chronicle, Reflex and E Fort all working towards smarter, more flexible and more secure energy systems for Europe.
Leon will share insights into how these initiatives are helping communities, industries and policymakers transition toward a greener and more resilient energy future.
Leon, thank you very much for being here with me today. And could you start by giving us a quick overview of circ's role within the European energy and innovation ecosystem?
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Of course. Thanks for having me. And thanks for that introduction.
CIRC is a technology center based in Saragossa, Spain. I mean principally we see our role as research and investigation and then transferring that technology to industry.
What do we research investigate? Well, we cover all the main challenges from the drive towards decarbonization, so that can be from electricity production, distribution, energy storage challenges through to harder to abate heavy industry, which could be, for example through alternative fuel or electrification, to transport, circularity, efficiency and of course parallel challenges, for example digitalization that can assist in the transition.
How do we carry that out? We're not just leaders in the purely technological aspects, but also we try and lead in industry direction and the connection of key actors through projects like this one, and direction of action towards industry relevant technology. So talking to industry, seeing what they need and trying to also carry that out throughout innovation in European projects. And that's a very, very broad and shallow overview of what we do and our role in the ecosystem, but I think it gives a quick idea of our philosophy.
[00:02:50] Speaker A: Leon, I think you are absolutely right. And speaking of innovation, the EU Commission has been intensifying its energy and climate regulations in recent years.
So what key policy changes do you think are having the biggest impact on energy innovation today?
[00:03:06] Speaker B: Speaking more generally, multi layered approach to energy and climate regulations is key. So you move from the big targets of the European Green Deal 2030 fit for 55 and 2050 net zero, and you go down the different levels at EU and then national, regional and industry specific regulations and you do that in a way that gives clarity, time for adoption and Adaption in the industries.
In the end, you want everyone to have confidence in the direction the regulations are moving over long timescales. So that gives confidence so that you can invest and act confidently over long time scales.
Specifically for the projects that we're going to mention today, which are incidentally a very small sample of all our SIRSI projects. But I would outline for the effort project principally, I mean it's very, very regulation heavy. It's principally cyber Security and electricity market and related directives such as the NIS2SO Network and Information Systems Directive, the EU Cyber Resilience and Cybersecurity Acts, the Electricity Market Directive and Regulations, the Data Governance act, the Proposed Data act, the Cybersecurity Competence Center Regulation and the Critical Entities Resilience Directive. I mean it's a very regulation heavy project, but necessarily so. I mean it's critical to building a secure and resilient although data dependent energy system. And if you consider those potential threats and the criticality of energy infrastructure. While the regulations make a lot of sense for reflex, the biggest innovation drivers are the EU green deals fit for 55 package and the electricity market design reform, the recast of the Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency Directives and the EPD recast and the upcoming Network Code on demand Response and Local Flexibility frameworks.
And finally for chronicle the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive EPBD EU 2024 1275, lots of numbers which leads to national building renovation plans by the end of 2026.
And of course the Nilay Zero energy and Zero Emission buildings is also important there, as is the renovation wave and other associated initiatives.
For example the new European Bauhaus.
Woof. That was a mouthful.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: That was a lot indeed. Directive and regulation heavy. So how do these regulations influence the kinds of projects that CIRC gets involved in or leads?
[00:05:42] Speaker B: I mean the system is using double incentives and addition to those double incentives, a good feedback mechanism. So the regulations assist with driving and latest standardizing industry needs.
And so that leads to direction for research investigation, also demonstration and market implementation of technologies. So that's sort of driven by the different regulations and on the other hand, EU funding through the projects assists in carrying out the required R and D and demonstrations and in feeding that information back into the system. So you carry out the research investigation based on the existing regulations and then you see the new needs for regulation and standardization that are coming out of your current investigation. I mean it's essentially we act as a communicator also. So we're trying to ensure that industry is aware of the movement or the suspected movement of regulations, also as a facilitator. So we move into the areas of technical need that are caused by regulatory changes.
If we can do that in private projects, acting individually, we do. But if not, we connect the right partners in EU projects to meet those needs.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Understood. I would like to discuss now the specific projects that you mentioned a little bit in more detail, let's say. So let's move to Chronicle and could you explain what this project focuses on and how it fits within Europe's wider digital and energy transformation strategy?
[00:07:07] Speaker B: So Chronicle, I know very well because I was directly the project manager of this project. Predominantly I would say it is about motivating energy efficiency actions in the residential building space.
But of course the knowledge is transferable to other sectors apart from the residential space.
The focus is on a professional end user so such as facility managers, energy service companies, architects, engineering and construction sector owners or investors. But of course there's consideration given to residents and the need to maintain and wherever possible, improve resident comfort and conditions while implementing the cost and carbon savings measures.
How do we achieve it through IoT and digitalization, which, I mean, that's nothing new. You've all heard that before.
But what are we doing specifically? Well, we're looking for minimum data flows that you might require to get a good picture of building functioning. So now the current picture and the potential improvements and that could be implemented in the future and trying to automate as much the analysis to reduce costs.
Some of the specific things will chronicle employees, IFC models from BIM, energy modeling, IoT data streams, material databases, all in an integrated architecture with digital twins.
And that leads to a range of tools which include building viewers and monitoring platforms, digital building logbooks, semi automated renovation plans with carbon bills and economic assessment, and some professional service apps as well as resident applications.
What's the, I guess the summary of all that? We want to motivate renovation action and the approach is to move the state of the art for energy and sustainability assessment of buildings to something that's dynamic and automated, that should give more and better actual information at a reasonable cost and all that to allow market uptake of the analysis solutions.
So if you can see the clear economic environmental case for a specific renovation and you can deliver that information at a cost that's not prohibitive, then the case for renovation becomes clear.
So if the proposed benefits of renovation are clear and trustworthy for all the actors, then they're going to act. And if you support that with the economic, environmental and other analysis, well, it's perfect. We Lower that first hurdle and then we move on to the other hurdles later.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: So in a nutshell, let's say, what kind of innovations or outcomes do you expect the project, namely Chronicle, to deliver in the next few years?
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Well, I mean, the project is coming to an end. So at the end of December 2025, the project will finish.
So we already have our range of tools developed very quickly. There's a simple application for residents.
There's a 3D building viewer with sort of an access to other data through that 3D building viewer. So you can click equipment or IoT sensors and see data related to those points in the, in the model.
That's for facility managers. There's a blockchain enabled digital building logbook, so place to store information.
A renovation planner for producing building renovation passports. And that's got an economic and environmental whole life cycle assessment part to it and a professional users tool suite with a range of tools for professional users. I mean, the difficult part comes now after the project, which is trying to create further interest, tailoring the approach and tools for interested stakeholders, probably at a national level. But I mean, it's all a step toward having all the actors with better information.
One, to motivate generation and efficiency actions and two, to make sure they're the right actions, considering the specific context.
I mean, that's costly. We're trying to bring down the costs.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: And basically giving the project the second life. Right, like from the exploitation also part.
Let's move to reflex a little bit now. This project aims to increase energy flexibility. So could you now explain what energy flexibility really means in practice and why it's so important in a nutshell, because yes, of course, our audience are knowledgeable just to know where we're standing with the project.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: Okay, I mean, well, we'll start from the basics. So energy flexibility, it's the capability of assets, for example, batteries, EVs, heat pumps, H VAC, industrial loads, inverters, I mean, many more, of course, any, any place where you have demand or generation to intentionally shape their consumption or generation pattern in response to external signals.
Those external signals, as we know, price congestion, dso, market activation, and all that with prior agreement of the effect or no perceptible effect on the, on the users.
And what does it do? Well, it's a great tool for adjusting demand to generation and assisting with power quality and grid stability in a range of context while maintaining those high levels of service. So that's sort of what it seeks to do.
It has the possibility to reduce enormously. And this is the great benefit of it at the end of the day to reduce capital expenditure in future grids. So when we put in distributed generation and we have less traditional spinning generation, then flexibility becomes a key part in that future grid.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: Okay, keeping that in mind or having that, let's say, as our intro, how does Reflex enable more efficient energy management for. For both consumers and grid operators?
[00:12:52] Speaker B: So it tackles both sides of flexibility.
So for grid operators it provides planning and operational tools that runs power flow analytics. So to anticipate flexibility needs over the full range of timescales, to pinpoint where and when congestion, voltage or quality issues might arise and triggering the local flexibility market to respond to those technical needs for prosumers and aggregators. So Reflex delivers sort of an end to end stack. So there's energy management systems that can optimize, for example battery energy storage systems, best electrical vehicle charging, solar, photovoltaic and flexible loads, and flexibility calculations based on power consumption profiling, considering ramping capabilities and limits and euros per kilowatt aggregation, disaggregation and all that is to translate market activations into device level set points and verification KPIs. So we need to go full circle.
The operators need something technically they translate that into some technical requirements which are mediated by contracts economically and, and then the actors deliver that flexibility and are remunerated for delivering the flexibility in addition.
So the calculations that we make, they consider rolling horizon, they can be centralized in the cloud, or I can also use edge computing to look for latency problems, you know, maybe have a Internet connection problem.
We also had deep tech where we think it matters. So for example electronics and algorithms for second life batteries, optimal market selection tools. So to choose as an aggregator or a prosumer, where you want to bid for maximum value.
In summary though, the idea is monetization that links the economic motivators to the technical needs of the grid operators. And we carry out both sides in Reflex.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: So these are some nice projects. And to me it resonates because you touch upon very important aspects of the electricity market, let's say in Europe, one is buildings, second is flexibility, and the third, which effort project. It actually touches on one of the most critical aspects of modern energy systems and that is cybersecurity.
My question therefore to you is what are the main challenges effort is addressing?
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Well, before describing the challenges, let's look at the, the European energy system, I mean, or energy, any energy system for that matter. But we're in Europe, so let's consider that.
So simultaneous pressures. So you've got aging infrastructure, you've Got expanding digital attack services. What does that mean? We've got more points of potential attack and entry and that's due to the required digitalization that raises the risk and, and the quantity of cyber intrusions.
There's also more potential climate driven disruptions, you know, with storms and things like that creating problems for the network.
Tighter real time balancing as renewables get into the system and reduce that traditional spinning reserve.
So the growth in distributed energy sources, electromobility, they add operational complexity of course and the policy frameworks, they need to be stronger aligned on climate adaption, on secure data exchange and on resilience.
So in short, there are multiple challenges and they drive a need for digitalization.
But digitalization also can decrease security and resilience if it's not, not done correctly. So you need to fill that, that gap there.
So E4 it seeks to secure mixed legacy and modern assets. So we've got a mixture of assets as well.
We're going to support them with solutions such as Circus securebox. That's a secure edge complete computing platform. So it's not just a edge computing box. It also has layers of security built in there.
It deploys a full digital twin to reveal vulnerabilities, strengthen operator readiness, reinforce procedures.
And E4 also develops AI based self healing, real time decision support and advanced forecasting to speed detection, response and recovery. We're covering a lot of bases with.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: E4 circling back to circa. Since you mentioned it, how is it contributing to securing Europe's future energy infrastructure through effort however.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: So in E4 at Circe we are the coordinator, I'm not the project manager, one of my colleagues is, but they briefed me very kindly on the project.
We're also the technical leader in the project.
So we ensure alignment with the regulatory, ethical and sustainability frameworks. And that's very interesting for us on an organizational level, not just in E4, we're very strongly invested in an interlinked with Spanish grid operators.
Technically in the project, Searcy develops core enables such as the previously mentioned Secure Box. As I said, it's an advanced edge device and it expands existing edge computing capabilities with sort of privacy preserving data collection, blockchain integrity checks, secure communication channels and some embedded intrusion detection and prevention systems.
We also lead the intrusion detection system for continuous network monitoring and rapid anomaly response. And in addition we oversee the range of demonstration activities across the pilot sites.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: Now it is a common secret that many projects, and many of the, and the projects actually you also mentioned, we mentioned in this, in this discussion involve large European consortia You will never hear of a project with a couple of partners. It's always over 10 to 15.
Over 10 or 15 partners. So how important is a collaboration between research institutions, companies, public authorities in achieving these goals? Because we're talking about actors from the entire spectrum of the energy transition in Europe.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: From my point of view, it's imperative. If you want a solution that is the best it can be for everyone, across borders, industries and the organizational types you mentioned, then cooperation is key. It's also difficult. I mean, I'm a project manager, I see it in my day to day. But it's imperative, despite the difficulties, you must do it. It's also crucial for implementation. So you want all those different actors pulling together towards the big European goals surrounding the energy transition and decarbonization.
But it's true at all scales, the collaboration required. So you can go from EU project up to the policy and regulation level. I mean, wherever, at any scale it's necessary.
At implementation level, a technical solution, it can only be right if it's doable.
And if you have that close collaboration, then it helps get the requirements right from all those varying perspectives. Technical, societal, economic.
So always important to consider the range of views.
I mean in this project or in these projects, for example, Smart innovation Norway was a key reason we're at ENLIT with these three projects. They have expertise in social innovation and communication. And it was very important for us in addressing those important aspects that are very present in EU projects. In Chronicle, they did our social innovation work, they ensured we engaged the end users effectively, we could integrate the human centered insights. And in Efort and Reflex, they were our key partners for communication dissemination. They help us translate. I mean, this is really important as well. When you're talking about EU projects, there's a dissemination, a thing there which is talking to society about what we're doing.
And they're our key partner for communication and dissemination, helping us translate that complex research and development into stories that resonate. They resonate with lay people, not just technical people. So with communities and other stakeholders who don't have that technical understanding, their contribution was very valuable, helping us combine our strong technical results with that social impact.
And although I have mentioned SIN today, because they had very much a specific role for our systems at nlip, that's true of all our partners inside and outside EU projects collaboration.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: I was listening to you and I couldn't help myself but come to the realization that CIRCE participated in too many projects. I say too many. One can say many projects simultaneously.
I'm not going to ask you how hard that was, because I'm sure it was.
It was very hard. But I'm going to ask you, from your perspective, what lessons has Circe learned? Let's say from this effort, there's never too many.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: We love our European projects, I mean, and I do personally, and we have a team of dedicated project managers who help us carry this out, plus all the technical side of the organization. I mean, we all like our, the work in European projects, but from my perspective, so apart from the sort of numerous technical developments and understanding and capabilities that you develop through the projects, I mean, that's an obvious win on the CSE side, that technical development. As a project manager, I would say the exposure to so many highly motivated and capable people from so many countries and organizations, that's the key takeaway for me. If you have the right organizations, the right people, and they have the right attitude, then when you encounter obstacles, problems and challenges, which, I mean, the energy transition is full of those, well, they become an opportunity.
Every challenge becomes an opportunity, becomes an opportunity to bring out the best in everyone.
And in the end, I mean, that for me has been a great thing to learn. And so do what you can to create the space for that, that collaboration and that, that shared learning and that space for different ideas to, to come to the fore. If you have a problem, make the space free so that everyone can have that discussion about how to resolve the problem and then move together as a, as a group, having agreed on the solution.
Create that space. Do it at organizational level, do it a project level, do it in collaboration between projects, with clients, anywhere you can, create the space for that cooperation, do.
[00:23:36] Speaker A: It also on a national level, because I was wondering, how do you see these projects influencing Spain's own energy transition? Keeping also in mind what happened in Spain, Portugal, et cetera, with the blackout and all that, which at the beginning we all thought it was a cybersecurity issue, but it wasn't.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: Yes, I mean, the energy transition in Spain is racing ahead. I mean, and each project in its own way pushes the limits of what's capable and the services that can be offered to stakeholders within that project domain.
If you add up all the projects, not just the ones mentioned here, but all the projects we have, you can see the great benefit of the investments in achieving the larger goals and specifically in realizing the great potential Spain has in a reimagined, decarbonized Europe. I think part of the, I mean, there's various official cases that have come out regarding the, the blackout, so I won't won't comment on the specifics of that case. But increasing renewable generation does create challenges. You create challenges security of supply, whether or not the blackout was caused by increased renewable generation or not.
And moving forward, those challenges become greater. In Spain, the more renewable generation you have, the more those challenges become something that requires an immediate solution.
So the projects influence our ability to increase renewable generation in a secure and resilient way because you are pushing the boundaries of what's known and the limits of what you can do to secure supply. Create a resilient system with renewable generation.
[00:25:17] Speaker A: As we approach the conclusion of our discussion, I would like you to look ahead and tell me what you think the next five years hold for European energy innovation and what role do you see Sirse playing in that journey?
[00:25:30] Speaker B: I think to begin with, so you need more investigation and solidification of storage and other energy vectors that are capable of buffering the variability in renewal generation. That's a key thing because renewable generation is statistically variable.
Along with that, of course, you need required grid and energy infrastructure changes to secure the supply with higher renewables along with all in that you'll be increasing electrification or inter or alternative fuel use across industries.
So alternative fuels like hydrogen, for example, and also deepening that efficiency drive to try and drive down wasteless, sorry, wasteful energy use.
Of course there are expected increases in demand from electrification and perhaps AI data centers that'll add challenges, but maybe opportunities as Cersei we'll be right there. We'll be following the trends, working with our partners in public and private projects, bridging the gap between the policy and regulations and the real technical implementation challenges that you face in order to comply with regulations. I really enjoy what I do. I mean, I feel like I'm part of the solution and I would say that's the philosophy of socially as well. Resolve those difficult technical problems so that we can all have a better future.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: That sounds really great. It's always refreshing to have people that enjoy what they do.
So on that positive note, I'm going to thank you, Leon, very much for this conversation.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: Thank you. Already.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: You'Ve been listening to the EU Energy Projects podcast, a podcast brought to you by Enlit and friends. You can find us on Spotify, Apple and the Enlit World website.
Just hit subscribe and you can access our other episodes too. I'm Aretita Radimo. Thank you for joining us.
