Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome to the EU Projects Podcast. Today we are joined by Jose Luis Corrales Siganda and Mohadesse Maktabi Fart, both from the Too Cool to Waste cluster, an initiative that brings together EU funded projects working on solutions that turn waste heat into an opportunity.
Thank you both for being here and can you please describe briefly your projects? Ladies first.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Yes, thank you very much for the opportunity. Seeds is an EU funded project developing cost effective replicable solutions for electrifying heating and cooling in buildings, mainly through smart heat pump systems combined with renewable energy and storage. We work across six pilot sites in five countries covering different climates, different building types, from heritage homes to dormitories, apartments and new commercial buildings. And our mission is pretty straightforward to reduce thermal demand, electrify efficiency, increase local renewable energy source use, provide energy flexibility and make these solutions scalable across Europe.
[00:01:13] Speaker C: Jose yeah, thank you for the invitation. First, so I'm representing here two projects. The first one is SynergyNet SenergyNit is about developing tools for improving and increasing the development of multi energy systems networks combining electricity and heating systems. And the second project is the rewatch project. It's a European project in which we develop new sustainable and cost effective solutions for producing cooling starting from heating. So it's using waste heat and renewable heat.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: And I would like to ask, what kind of technologies or concepts does seeds use?
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Well, several technologies are at the core of seeds, that being hybrid heat pumps, building integrated and building applied photovoltaics, energy storage, both thermal and electrochemical smart control through model predictive control. So MPC and AI driven optimization, interoperable IoT platforms based on open protocols and open APIs.
And yeah, that's it, more or less.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Let's go to rewitch a little bit.
I know that it is divided in three parts and the first was achieved before the summer. So now it's in the implementation phase. What does it mean exactly being in the implementation phase?
[00:02:39] Speaker C: So let's talk. As I said before we had sorption technologies or thermally driven cooling systems. In the first phase we have analyzed the different sectors where these technologies will be implemented and in parallel we have been developing these innovative cooling technologies, sorption, adsorption, cooling or chillers and absorption with the chiller systems. So in the second phase we are starting looking at the four particular demo cases. We are studying how to implement these technologies in each of the four demo cases. So we have to do the first. We are now progressing with the basic engineering, but we are starting right now with the detailed engineering. So we are doing the projects how to implement these systems.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Speaking of results and what's happening seeds, how does it plan to support replication of its results across Europe?
[00:03:31] Speaker A: That's a very good question.
Replication is at the heart of seeds. Just like our 15 sister projects at To Cool to Waste cluster, we provide a comprehensive digital toolbox for planners, engineers and municipalities, business models and financing strategies. The innovative types, replication, roadmap, engagement with followers, citizens, stakeholders and modular, scalable, cost effective technical solutions. So our goal is to make electrification solutions affordable, easy to adopt and usable in new buildings, but also in renovated ones.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Technalia is a big and well known company and it is making connections with a COVAP demo in Spain. Right.
So could you explain what is implemented there? Because I want to go back a little bit to the implementation phase we discussed.
[00:04:25] Speaker C: In the case of cobab, we are implementing a system, a new hybrid absorption compression system that is a pioneer technology, that's first of its kind, that will be first tested in our laboratory in Technalia and then it will be implemented in the premises of Cobab. Cobab is a daily plant, so it's a very big agri food cooperative near Cordoba. So now they are using biomass driven steam boilers to produce hot water at 60 degrees. What we want is to introduce this hybrid absorption compression heat pump to reduce the consumption of steam by half and at the same time produce cooling water.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: To cool to waste is an initiative, not only a cluster. It's basically an initiative that is much needed in Europe. And not only.
How would you describe it and why would you ask, let's say, other projects to join this initiative? Would you like to go first?
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah, sure.
Yes, I agree with you that it's more than a cluster, it's an initiative.
What it does is that it amplifies our voice, it amplifies what we are doing within our projects, but also it helps us understand what our sister projects are doing in terms of success stories, lessons learned, especially for example, for seeds, we are at the end of year two, but we see projects within the initiative which are at the last phase of their project duration. So it's very nice for us to get to know about the results and.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Experiences, speaking of those experiences and results.
And I'll come to you, Jose, in a minute.
I wanted to ask you what the new European BAO House is and why we are asking, let's say, the New Horizon projects to join initiatives like this, okay?
[00:06:17] Speaker A: The new European Bauhaus and also built for people, by the way, because in the cluster, some of our Projects are asked to have joint activities with Built for People initiative, which is supposed to bring these technologies, which are the results of our projects, closer to the end user. And for example, to say concretely what we are doing in seeds. Well, first off, we are aiming at joint activities with built for People projects to learn from them, to know how are the innovation crosses going on across Europe. But also an example could be that in seeds we have this technology and exploitable results called Rooftop Solar Planner developed by AI Energy. And we realized that its features, its characteristics is very much aligned with the new European warehouse's core values, which is sustainable, aesthetic and inclusive. And we suggested and they listed it in the Nebula success Stories technologies. So it was a very nice first step. We are at the second year, so it's a bit early for the results. But as we go forward, we try to identify such opportunities.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Would Synergies and Andrew Witch also join this. This movement, this initiative and why?
[00:07:39] Speaker C: Yes, I think. I mean, we have to be.
To analyze. Exactly. Because they are two different projects and I think we have some aspects of the project could be included in the goals of these initiatives.
But I think probably more for the Synergy nets than for Rewits is really dedicated to industrial activities. So we will need to analyze. But I think it's a very interesting initiative and we should consider that for sure.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: And why would you say other projects? Come back to my previous question. Should participate at the To Cool to Waste.
[00:08:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the To Cool to Waste cluster is really important.
I mean, if you are working on the energy efficiency sector, you realize there is an increasing number of publications and also not only publication, also reports from analysts that say that waste heat usage and upgrade is one of the sleeping giants in the energy efficiency.
So we think that the industry now, if they want to decarbonize, it's not only about electrification, it's also about how to use the waste heat they have. And all studies say there are a lot of waste heat.
There will be common problems that it's not only which technology do you use to combat this waste heat, it's how do you recover this waste heat. And I think learning from other projects will benefit everyone.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: If we put the EU commission aside for a moment because I was thinking while you were talking that these are important initiatives, important ideas. Do they have financing outside? I mean Technalia, yes, participates. But do companies, utilities and funds, other funds, private funds, perhaps collaborate with projects within the To Cool to Waste cluster?
Jose?
[00:09:29] Speaker C: So as far as I know.
Sorry, as far as I know, I think not as a private entity. So they are of course many private companies that are participating in these projects and they are. But as far as I know, there is not private companies right now that say, I want to be part of this initiative. There are other ones like decarbonization clusters all over Europe, but not the Chu Cool to Waste Initiative at the moment.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: What are the problems you faced in creating this initiative and within the projects also it can be from regulatory side, financing side, whatever you choose.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: On the top of my head, I don't see any barrier or challenges. Maybe it's because it's pretty new. So the cluster itself is newborn and so far we have been focusing mainly on getting to know each other as projects and also understand, okay, what are the scopes? If it is, for example, this is specific exploitable results where we have in seeds, how it's going on in Thunder, in Rewich, in our other projects.
But in terms of challenges where maybe they're yet to come. Let's see.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: Nice to hear your thoughts, Jose.
[00:10:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's similar to what she was saying and I think it's also something that the private companies at the moment are not aware there is this kind of initiative. So we are just getting to know each other and then we need to spread the word and make this initiative to achieve a larger number of participants.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: So maybe I have to hold to that question and ask you some other time, maybe in the future.
Another thing that is quite important for the European Commission and many projects are facing it is the exploitation part. So I was wondering, could rewitch, for example, solutions be replicated in many industrial sectors or is it only for cooling heating?
[00:11:20] Speaker C: No, for sure it can be replicated. As I said before, waste heat is something that you can use in many ways. So there is also another project in the To Cool to Waste initiative, it's called Push to Heat, which is coordinated by Technalia, by the way. So, and in this project as well, we, we are using waste heat to heat up to use the waste heat to upgrade and produce steam, for example. That's something it's been doing as well in the SAS Heat project that is part of the Chocolatey Waste. So there are different ways of using this waste heat and all these approaches can be beneficial for the companies to learn from these experiences.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: What about seeds?
[00:11:55] Speaker A: I would say the same in seeds, given that flexibility is at its core and electrification without flexibility risks overloading the grid.
We use predictive models, multi objective optimization, dynamic signals, and I think that's pretty replicable and exploitable in different contexts. For example, within the lifetime of the project, which is four years, we are focusing on heritage trusts, houses, multifamily apartment blocks, university dormitories, office buildings. So I see the opportunity that as we go forward, maybe during the post project exploitation we can adopt it in other contexts as well.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: As we're approaching the end of our discussion, I would like you to give a message to the European Commission, to perhaps the industry and I would like us, if you want to end on a positive note, what would you tell them if they were listening now to you?
[00:12:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I will tell them Please look at your processes. We know it's something that is not easy to do, but we have tools that can do your life easier and help you to discover the potential for waste heat recovery. So if you are interested in improving the efficiency of your process, reducing your CO2 print, then please look at your waste heat and we can help you. There are institutions that are projects that can help you to find a way to do that.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Excellent.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: I would put a spotlight on the regulations and interoperability so in seeds we are making progress in this regard, but we know that interoperability and digital openness still requires further regulatory support.
We try to actively promote open, secure, vendor neutral platforms and align with European initiatives, but I think further alignments are needed. So yeah, this is my message on regulation.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Thank you both for your insights. Thank you for the taste opportunity for further insights. Join the ENLIT Community.
