Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to the EU Energy Projects Podcast, a podcast series from Enlida and France focusing on the clean energy transition for the European Union and the EU Commission funded energy projects that will help us achieve it.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: In this episode of the EU Energy Projects Podcast, I'm joined by Alberto Agoura, industry lead, and Marlene Zanier, circular economy lead@Climate KIC.
And they're going to talk about this EU supported initiative and how it's turning climate ambition into action.
Welcome Alberto and Marlene and thank you for joining us today.
[00:00:51] Speaker C: Thank you, Jonathan.
[00:00:53] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: I'd like to start with a brief background to Climate kic, if you can tell us what it's about.
[00:01:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I can take that one. So Climate Kick, we can say kic, but it's actually quicker to say Climate Kick was established in 2010, so as one of the first, as one of the first kicks or Knowledge and Innovation Communities. That's what it means under the European Institute of Innovation. So Eitan. So we used to be called EIT Climate Kick and now we just climatic because we are now independent of eit, which mainly means that our funding is more varied basically and we define ourselves as a climate innovation agency and community.
So our goal is really to address climate change by fostering innovation and supporting projects that drive decarbonization and enhance climate resilience.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: And Marlene, can you go into a bit more detail about how Climate Kick works?
[00:01:51] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. So at Climate Kick we work in systems, so our mission is really to catalyze systemic change. And what that means is that to transform places we live and work in, we need to take a system lens, so address what is visible and its change, but also what is less obvious and might be slowing us down in addressing climate change. So, so let's say mindset for example. We don't think it at first, but it's actually very important in the whole system to address climate change.
So taking a system lens in like to the innovation we support, it means that we're going to look at different, what we call levels of change. So technology of course, but also policy, governance, education, finance, mindset as I said and because the impact actually associated with climate change, so being social, political, environmental are very complex and interconnected, like single point solutions are not enough to address this. So that's why we need to look at the whole system and at all those levers of change to really drive change.
And so we work in systems and we aim to with who we work. We aim to support cities, regions, countries, but also industries and local innovation ecosystems let's say to Develop and deploy solutions that address those interconnected challenges and see them as a portfolio. So it's not only about doing one thing, but it's doing multiple things that you connect to actually drive transformation.
And in our team, specifically with Alberto, which is the industry value chain team, industry engagement is key. So we really aim to position industry as a key partner in cities and regions to drive transformation of value chains and ultimately drive systemic transformation.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: And can you go into a bit more detail about those areas of focus?
[00:03:41] Speaker C: So we have different areas of focus. So I mentioned industry.
So basically the areas of focus are where emissions are stubborn and resilience may be weak. Industry is one of them. We work a lot with cities as well, as I mentioned, and land use is another one.
So in cities we're looking at construction, natural based solution, energy solutions, of course, infrastructure mobility systems. In land use we would be looking at regenerative agriculture, landscape as carbon sinks and soil quality as well.
And in industry we work with energy. So that's obviously there are multiple crossover between those areas and also the circular economy overall in multiple sectors. So in textile, in economy, in critical raw materials as well, among others.
And then of course we have multiple teams working on that. So we are the industry team, we have the cities, the regional team, and we have also an entrepreneurship team. So working a lot with startups and hackathon and supporting the startup ecosystem. And we also have the Academy, which focuses more on capacity building for system
[00:04:48] Speaker B: change and then focusing in on the energy sector. Alberto, renewables are obviously important and what is Climate Kick doing to support their development?
[00:04:59] Speaker D: Indeed, Climate Kick actually works in several fronts here. Right. So we develop our own projects with partners. So for example, recently we have deployed a project in Poland where we help some of the municipalities over there to help communities in those municipalities to understand and prepare them for the phasing out of a coal based economy. Poland is very much dependent on coal, so it's a very important economic activity. And every time you replace that from a carbon base into renewables, of course you generate some impacts there. And the question is, what are those impacts and how we can actually help local communities to absorb this impact, adapt and then thrive as well.
But we are also working in bioeconomy and biogas generation. Some other projects, for example. Example, we have one that is basically creating a tool where farmers can start to understand what is the economic business case here for biomass to be turned into biogas. Yeah. So one of the main barriers that we identified is that the ones that own biomass or the farmers, they are not always keen to use this biomass to generate biogas because the business case is unknown and if the business case is unknown, they prefer not to do it. So this is one of the projects that we are running.
Besides these projects that we run in conjunction with partners, we also work a lot with startups as Marlene has mentioned. So we do have a program called SAFE and basically help these startups to thrive as well. And when you think about the energy renewables value chain, we are actually acting in some of them. So for example, we act in the generation space.
So there is a startup called Clever Solar Devices. They created this small sensor that basically helps large solar panels to improve operations, maintenance and also of course optimize output. Yeah, but we are also supporting a startup called Boulder Spelled B O L D R and they actually have these smart devices that you can install at home and they control both like the energy usage and air conditioning and they optimize the usage based on the history of how the house is actually using these energies.
Not to forget, we also are working with the aftermarket. So what happens when these products, they end their life cycle and how we can actually reuse them?
We are working with a startup called Afterwind. It's a very interesting startup. They are from Sweden and they are trying to solve a huge problem. And the problem that they are trying to solve is what to do with the wind turbine blades when they reach the end of life. And at the moment, for example, in many cases we cannot bury the blades so we end up burning them.
And the reusage of these blades is something that is very impactful and I think that AFTER Wind is carefully looking into some solutions on that.
So the idea of Climate Kick is really to think systemically, as Marlene said, not on a specific value chain, but how these value chains are connected and how we can actually look into the entire life cycle of solutions.
We are actively looking into new pathways on how to actually enable the energy transition with this constellation of partners and change makers.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: The work is very broad then, but it leads on nicely to the next point I wanted to talk about and that's the Circular Supply Chain Coalition.
How does that fit into Climate Kick? And why is circularity so important for the energy transition?
[00:09:23] Speaker C: So the, yes, the Circular Supply Chain Coalition is a key initiative that CLIMATIC is part of to support circularity of critical raw materials, but also the energy transition is part of it, even though it's not only about that.
So the CSCC stands for Circular Supply Chain Coalition as you said, and it's a global coalition. So powered By Pixel Sarah Global in the US climate kick in Europe to implement circular supply chains for critical raw materials, specifically by implementing regional circular hubs.
But it's global, so it's not only about the US and Europe. We're also looking at Southeast Asia, India and potentially Latin America and Africa as well.
We just started in those two geographies. But the willingness is to expand, expand because they are critical materials in all those parts of the world.
And as you know, they are very critical at the moment with the Critical Raw Materials act being into force, the circular Economy act as well. So, so it's very, very important to, to look at that. So critical raw materials, why they are so important from those regulations and the economy is that for the energy transition there are key constituents in batteries for example, and other components in electric vehicles. So electric cars of course, with micromobility, electric vehicles really, and also wind turbines. So Alberto already mentioned after wind and the wind turbines, so the blades actually have less critical materials. But in the wind turbines you also have nickel superalloys in the towers, permanent magnets that will be coming of life very soon, actually in about five years. The sea cables as well have lots of critical materials and of course energy, the solar panels as well are very important. So that's a lot of products and components where they are critical raw materials embedded that sometimes are not recovered as their full potential recovered or potentially remanufactured and reused or repaired because we're looking at the full circularity cycle here.
So we need more secular supply chain for this CRM because Europe currently has an extreme import dependency. So as you may know, 95% of critical raw materials are imported and 98% of rare earth magnets are actually from China. And we also have dependence on equipment, by the way, from China to process and recycle those permanent magnets. So it kind of put our raw material security and European supply chains at a big risk, you know, with China's export controls, especially leki.
So the CSCC aims to address that and connect all players along the supply chain. So feedstock providers, processors, recyclers, industry consumers, but also policymakers, regions, communities and funders, of course, because we need money to do that, to collaborate and work together. And that's an opportunity to actually connect those players in currently fragmented value chains. Because right now there are lots of projects happening, many things, but they are quite fragmented across countries and regions.
So to, to work together, to collaborate, to innovate on topics such as magnet recycling, but also very importantly address circular design and digital product passport requirements. Because digital product passport will become compulsory soon for magnets and batteries. And it's very important because they are actually enabling that components can then be easily dismantled for recycling and also reuse and remanufacture. So we're looking really at all those enablers along the value chain from design with the tracking, the traceability elements and the product passport all the way to recycling and then go back and close the loop, hopefully back to the feedstock providers and manufacturers.
So we believe that such a coalition can help create a movement towards like CRM secularity across European regions and globally. Of course.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: And leadership's obviously important. I know this is a particular interest of yours, Alberto, and why is it so important specifically at this moment in time?
[00:13:41] Speaker D: Yeah, that's a good question, Jonathan. And I think this plays a lot in the current situation in the renewables. So a couple of days ago the president of the IEA just mentioned that Europe should electrify much faster.
And that calls for strong leadership.
And I think that especially at this moment where there's so much things going on in the world, leadership is essential.
Our zeitgeist at the moment is really to operate under fear because everything that is going on, so you can name it like war, geopolitics, a bumpy economy, people saying that Europe is not innovative enough and this kind of thing. So there's a lot of arguments there.
But what I just finished now was my MBA and I delivered that thesis about this topic. And the thesis was basically about investigating whether a person that understands systems so systemic thinking is actually able to sense and act upon a call, an inner call, with regards to, for example, what they see around in terms of climate conditions.
And what I found is that there is an interesting correlation between people that can actually understand the system. See, the systems understand the effects and the compounding effects on climate and being able to act upon it at the same time. People that are not able to understand how systems are connected, not always are actually willing to take action. So some very often they externalize the action. So they say, okay, this is something that is not up to me, my scope is something else. And I will leave this to someone else. Yeah, but the main question here is really about agency, right? So in a time like this, where we are living under such constraints and restraints, who are actually the leaders that really take action and why do they do that and in this sense how do they feel when doing so?
And I think that's one of the most important aspect is what does fear? So how fear interferes into that and what does it has to do with the act and the decision to act upon fighting climate change?
[00:16:16] Speaker B: And can you go into more detail about what you found from your research on fear and how it's connected to the topic of leadership?
[00:16:24] Speaker D: Well, Jonathan, let me ask you a question.
Do you know what the distance between calm and fear?
[00:16:31] Speaker B: No.
[00:16:32] Speaker D: It's a phrase. It's basically a phrase. We need to talk.
So every time you hear this phrase, something arises inside you. Right. So you get triggered. And depending on who is talking, if you know, if it's your partner or your boss, you might react in a very different way.
So there is this level of anxiety that you feel with regards to what you receive, the message you receive, the information you received.
And fear is inherent for humans. Right. So we all have, and it's really deeply ingrained.
It came out of survival.
So basically what happens is that our brain is used to think about a certain situation, evaluate the scenarios, alternatives, pros and cons, and by doing so, it uncover insights. Yeah. And that sometimes gives way to feelings. So that's the moment where, for example, fear might hit. Yeah.
And in my research, what I checked was that the effect of fear, besides being like, you know, based on genetics. And so what has happened before in terms of survival instinct, we still have it, and it's something that we have brought from our descendants. Yeah.
And the modern fear can be a bit different.
It can be that you have a live threat in front of you, but very often it plays to our insecurities, let's say job insecurity or fear that AI would take our jobs, or not obeying my boss and becoming redundant. So we all fear this type of situations. And the interesting thing is that when you have this fear inside you and you try to survive, you suspend your values. And once you suspend your values, you're not yourself anymore. You become someone else.
What I did in my research is I interviewed a lot of people that had this conflict inside them. They are change makers, so they effectively created something out of it, but they also have this fear, and this is completely normal. So one of the change makers that I interviewed, for example, they had this fear of acting for a long time, like around four years.
So for four years, he was trying to actually do something, and then suddenly, finally, he decided to do it.
Yeah, but I think that what's important here is that indeed, fear kind of stops us to become who we are supposed to be because it suspends our values. And at the moment, what we really need in this situation that we're living is Courageous leadership.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: So what is courageous leadership?
What would you define that as?
[00:19:43] Speaker D: Yes, that's another very good question. Right, so the first thing is that a leader in this sense is not in the organizational context. Right. So we're not talking about a hierarchy of who is denominated the leader.
We are really talking about all of us.
All of us are leaders within our own context and within our own lives. Right. So but the question here is that the courageous leaders are the ones that are able to act upon their fears. It doesn't mean that they don't have fears. And by the way, being a fearless leader or having a fearless leader is actually quite dangerous because the person can be quite inconsequential. Right. But a courageous leader is the one that is able to feel the fear inside and despite it, take action. Yeah, and I mentioned one of the change makers before and I think the way change makers are solving the topic of fear and turning into courageous leaders is by testing. So test if this feeling is actually real, testing if the direction and the intention that they have can bear fruits and whether the outcome, and let's say the future vision is something that is connected to themselves.
I think that at this moment, although we are operating under fear in several levels of society, we have this opportunity to step up. So leaders within themselves, they are able to actually step up and be courageous, to change the situation around what we see today.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: And how does that then connect back to Climate Kick in general?
[00:21:42] Speaker D: That. It's another very good question, Jonathan. So as Marlene mentioned, climatic works with systemic thinking, and in systemic thinking we are working with the visible part and also the invisible part of the systems.
And for that, for example, we can see the visible part in the renewables, as you know, wind turbines and the solar systems.
But then there is also this invisible part in the renewables which sometimes hit us. Yeah, so for example, you can see in Germany there is some discussions over heat pumps. So heat pumps, in theory they are very sustainable, very good, but there is some level of uneasiness with regards to the topic and there is a need to actually understand a bit better what is the point of view of people, how do they think so, the mindsets, the behavior and how this fit into the context of the transition.
That's why, for example, Climate Kick is working on an impact proposition called well Being Economy. And we identified within the well being Economy, the courageous leadership topic, as one of the main topics.
Why? Because we basically need to go from a short termism point of view, a short term perspective, into a collective well being where we can actually reframe the themes across, for example, equity resilience, planetary health and energy security.
This ability for us to reframe the questions from what is important now to actually what is important from a systemic point of view of when things are actually interconnected is what connects Climate Kick into this topic very much.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: That's interesting how broad the topic of climate is when you put it in these terms.
And then just to close, Marlene, how can someone support Climate Kick's mission?
[00:24:02] Speaker C: But I guess we are looking for change makers in industry who are courageous enough and hopefully what Alberto said is inspiring to make a change to a new economy for long lasting impact.
So that's what we need. Given our aim is to change systems, we are ready to work with anyone looking for a change. Really?
I said industry, but industry actors. But not only because the system has so multiple parts that are interconnected, we can work with so many actors along the value chain and we do already.
So yeah. So it could be anyone looking for a change. And the support can take, of course, multiple forms. So we can work hand in hand together to change specific value chains or funding to specific projects or initiatives or even core funding to support the mission.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Okay, super good. Well, thank you very much, both of you, Alberto, Marlene, for your insights.
We look forward to following the progress of these activities in the future.
So thank you again.
[00:25:02] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: Jonathan.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: You've been listening to the EU Energy Projects Podcast, a podcast brought to you by Enlit and France. You can find us on Spotify, Apple and the Enlit World website.
Just hit subscribe and you can access our other episodes too. I'm Aretita Radimo.
Thank you for joining us.
